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Arizona Daily Star Opinion – Critics Sound unneeded, strident tone:
1. Comment by Hank T. (Hank T) — December 23,2009 @ 5:14AM
Ratings: -6 +40
Having an opinion about business is virgin territory for the ADS. Thanks for attempting to understand the issue.
'Pragmatism, compromise and moderation are not vices.'
After 32 years at the helm the compromise thing hasn't worked. The board insulates Camper and this is the SECOND attempt to remove him in 2 years.
He's the elephant in the room that everyone sees but refuses to acknowledge.
There is a reason the Chamber membership is declining (down in half since 1997), there is a reason Tucson is ranked at the bottom of 101 cities for business, and their are concrete examples of the chamber splintering the business voice and managing to keep their status quo instead of fixing the problems in this community.
Fat cat, old guard, the same 15 people run Tucson are all legitimate criticism. If I were Camper I would stay to if I continued to get raises, cars, country club memberships, if I work part time and have no accountability in my job even as my results are crashing around me.
Tucson, keep this up and you will keep getting the very community you deserve. Those of you that own a business or are employed by a business start looking at Marana because they would love to have you.
2. Comment by jon f. (jdfast) — December 23,2009 @ 6:01AM
Ratings: -11 +31
Once again the ADS simply shows that its editorials lack any credibility at all. First you lean so far left that its simply reduculous. Next some of your reporters are reporting the truth and you choose to ignore their reporting and stay isolated behind your closed doors just as the chamber does. You can't have it both ways. You endorsed all of the incumbants for the city council race and still continue to trumpet Rio Nuevo. As we can all see the council is a mess and RN has turned into a money pit and croney payoff network. There has never been a full disclosure of how and where the funds were spent and most likely there never will be. The ADS should do a complete investigation on all of the expenses. All of these issues are sumptoms of the same issue. Status quo is no longer acceptable. The "good old boy" network is no longer acceptable and when the ADS and organizations like the chamber realize this then the entire city will be better off, not just one ogranization or group, I mean the whole city. Its about the whole city now, just not a small part or neighborhood.
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3. Comment by jon f. (jdfast) — December 23,2009 @ 6:01AM
Ratings: -9 +14
Once again the ADS simply shows that its editorials lack any credibility at all. First you lean so far left that its simply reduculous. Next some of your reporters are reporting the truth and you choose to ignore their reporting and stay isolated behind your closed doors just as the chamber does. You can't have it both ways. You endorsed all of the incumbants for the city council race and still continue to trumpet Rio Nuevo. As we can all see the council is a mess and RN has turned into a money pit and croney payoff network. There has never been a full disclosure of how and where the funds were spent and most likely there never will be. The ADS should do a complete investigation on all of the expenses. All of these issues are sumptoms of the same issue. Status quo is no longer acceptable. The "good old boy" network is no longer acceptable and when the ADS and organizations like the chamber realize this then the entire city will be better off, not just one ogranization or group, I mean the whole city. Its about the whole city now, just not a small part or neighborhood.
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4. Comment by Joe S. (Joe Saba) — December 23,2009 @ 6:40AM
Ratings: -3 +35
that camper guy on the news last night is as old as my grandpa - oh, they're all DEAD
and the chairman of the board - well same'o same'o
vote with your NON-membership $$$$
and then set up your own TUCSON CHAMBER OF BUSINESS
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5. Comment by J. R. M. (Mr Optimistic) — December 23,2009 @ 7:00AM
Ratings: -4 +32
The ADS displays it's absolute ignorance of understanding the issue when it says that the small business group is "hostile", yet the head of the Chamber of Commerce is "strident". Did you see the open hostility the head of the Chamber of Commerce diplayed on the local evening news last night? I thought Camper was gonna blow a blood vessel right before the camera!!!!
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6. Comment by c b. (race) — December 23,2009 @ 7:13AM
Ratings: -4 +29
Besides shaving off his stash ,Jack has done nothing for small business who he is supposed to represent.Nuf said.
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7. Comment by Phillip D. (pdavid) — December 23,2009 @ 7:32AM
Ratings: -3 +20
Remember, the Chamber of Commerce is a union. Nothing more, nothing less. A union of business owners. They pay dues to an organization that is supposed to promote their interests.
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8. Comment by Steven S. (SilverBeing) — December 23,2009 @ 7:32AM
Ratings: -7 +15
Another reason that the Chamber, both here and in other cities, is their support for the legalization of illegals. The National Chamber has for sometime now been supporting and pushing for the amnesty thing and the consumer, myself included, is starting to favor NON Chamber businesses.
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9. Comment by B V. (bverdugo) — December 23,2009 @ 7:36AM
Ratings: -3 +24
I think small businesses have legitimate gripes. If you look at the Tucson Metro Chamber board, it is made up of surprise mostly members of big corporations. There doesn't appear to be much room at the table for small business owners, who the TMCC ignores because they don't supply as much cash to the coffers of the TMCC.
Hey ADS, instead of lame opinion pieces like this one, how about doing an actual investigation into how cities like Albuquerque, Utah Valley, Reno etc have vibrant chambers of commerce with memberships that are triple the size of TMCC. Why is that?
And you wonder why your subscriptions are plummetting.
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10. Comment by Richard S. (Harry Red Dog) — December 23,2009 @ 8:14AM
Ratings: -3 +22
The idea of forming a Tucson Chamber of Business for the 99% of locally owned businesses with under 500 employees(excluding government and education)is a good idea. The existing Chamber is so entrenched, despite doing nothing for small business, it will not and cannot change.
The alternative, Tucson's Small Business Association is more of a lead sharing club than a political organization and is also unlikely to change.
Both Marana and Northern Pima County have viable chambers, a newly formed chamber of business would do well to look at those models in setting up their own.
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11. Comment by Henry W. (Skilift) — December 23,2009 @ 8:32AM
Ratings: -2 +23
The chamber is a good old boys club at best. Me Camper set the place up as a retirement cash register for him. Somebody should check out his retirement plan and make it public. Good chamnce you'd see how he's been milking the place for years.
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12. Comment by Jay B. (ConcernedInAZ) — December 23,2009 @ 9:15AM
Ratings: -0 +24
Dysfunctional government and a fragmented business community, in Tucson 7 captains on a ship that can't muster agreement to leave port -
Spring Training gone, how long before the Gem Show moves to Vegas
The status quo is unacceptable
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13. Comment by Juan C. (666999) — December 23,2009 @ 9:24AM
Ratings: -7 +10
a dysfunctional paper trumpeting a dysfunctional Chamber because they both support illegals lowering working Americans wages so big business can make more money.
No wonder the editor that wrote this crap refused to sign it, who cam blame em?
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14. Comment by Juan C. (666999) — December 23,2009 @ 9:24AM
Ratings: -5 +8
a dysfunctional paper trumpeting a dysfunctional Chamber because they both support illegals lowering working Americans wages so big business can make more money.
No wonder the editor that wrote this crap refused to sign it, who can blame em?
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15. Comment by R C. (raclark3) — December 23,2009 @ 9:44AM
Ratings: -1 +17
#9 ... AMEN
Also, regardless of what any of us thinks, let's not forget that Jack, after meeting with small business owners regarding their concerns, tendered his resignation to the board. And although the board rejected it, HE even must have believed that he's not doing the job. Capable and successful leaders don't resign.
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16. Comment by Deimos M. (Deimos) — December 23,2009 @ 9:55AM
Ratings: -0 +5
#s 4 and 5 -- I missed local news last night, which channel(s) picked up on this? I'll try to find on their web sites (LOL).
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17. Comment by A. R. (archcc) — December 23,2009 @ 9:58AM
Ratings: -2 +16
ADS needs to stop pandering to their advertisers and start thinking about what sells newspapers. Defining the leadership status quo in this community does not sell newspapers.
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18. Comment by A. R. (archcc) — December 23,2009 @ 10:02AM
Ratings: -0 +8
19. Comment by Jay B. (ConcernedInAZ) — December 23,2009 @ 11:04AM
Ratings: -0 +21
I'm not sure that this editorial is unbiased with Mike Jameson from Tucson Newspapers on the TMCC Board of Directors as Vice Chair, Membership and Communications
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20. Comment by Sarah C. (Arlington) — December 23,2009 @ 11:17AM
Ratings: -0 +22
Time for a redo of the Chamber of Commerce. Camper and all the other employees. There is a bad culture there.
The Chamber needs new blood.
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21. Comment by Eric R. (Ruden) — December 23,2009 @ 11:28AM
Ratings: -0 +23
#16 Kgun 9, 10 o'clock news had coverage of the Tucson First protest and Mr. Camper's response. He looked a little defensive. The chamber is a joke and Tucson won't change until the good ol' boys are kicked out!
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22. Comment by Keith C. (kcooper) — December 23,2009 @ 1:28PM
Ratings: -0 +9
How disconnected can the Chamber and Daily Star get? I am fed up! That usually shows as declining membership...been going on for some time now. Now it's time for accountability. Post the goals and accomplishments and score how they've done, survey business. Does the Chamber represent its constituents and members? Based on the numerous conversations I've had with business owners, 100% no. I would not use the word crisis yet for myself but I'm not going to stand by until it becomes one.
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23. Comment by Deimos M. (Deimos) — December 23,2009 @ 2:01PM
Ratings: -0 +5
Thanks, Eric. Was that you being interviewed?
So glad KGUN got "both sides."
Yuk. They are so lame.
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24. Comment by Jack M. (jmcdtucson) — December 23,2009 @ 2:34PM
Ratings: -0 +15
"First, we don't necessarily recognize that Jack Camper."
Could that be because the ADS editorial staff is part of the established power structure that Camper is supposedly favoring?
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25. Comment by Tom B. (FloridaTom) — December 23,2009 @ 2:35PM
Ratings: -4 +2
It won't matter how loud the Chamber screams, as long as the residents of the city of Tucson keep electing weak, self serving council members and mayor. Same can be said about the Pima County Board of Supervisors. Voter apethy in the City and County is so bad, nothing will ever. Some group who is probably paid by right wingers in Phoenix won't cause any change either. By the way, who is paying the members of Tucson First?
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26. Comment by Randy L. (Instigator) — December 23,2009 @ 2:45PM
Ratings: -5 +4
27. Comment by Robert S. (rstar1) — December 23,2009 @ 5:08PM
Ratings: -0 +3
"Pragmatism, compromise and moderation are not vices"
Depends on who is asking for the compromise, what is being compromised, and who is doing the compromising, seems to me!
The story goes that "Politics is the Art of Compromise", but it usually works out that Politics is just the "Art of The Sellout"!
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28. Comment by Bruce B. (4262) — December 23,2009 @ 5:18PM
Ratings: -1 +2
29. Comment by Jay B. (ConcernedInAZ) — December 24,2009 @ 7:20AM
Ratings: -0 +10
I understand that Camper's resignation was rejected by the Executive Committee, not the full Board of Directors. Surely that should have required the full board's vote. Isn't that a requirement in the TMCC bylaws?
How do the board members who didn't vote feel?
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30. Comment by clyde d. (takebacktucson) — December 24,2009 @ 3:12PM
Ratings: -0 +8
19. I'm not sure that this editorial is unbiased with Mike Jameson from Tucson Newspapers on the TMCC Board of Directors as Vice Chair, Membership and Communications.
Agreed. It looks as if Jameson took advantage of his influence at ADS to attack his political foes. Foolish.
Replace Jack Camper and the Board.
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31. Comment by clyde d. (takebacktucson) — December 24,2009 @ 4:00PM
Ratings: -0 +8
20.Time for a redo of the Chamber of Commerce. Camper and all the other employees. There is a bad culture there.
The Chamber needs new blood.
According to posts, Jack Camper and the COC Board Chair, Bonnie Allin, have contributed to the decline of the COC and the TAA cultures for many, many years. They have failed to carryout the missions of these organizations. I vote no confidence.
“link text”:www.regulus2.azstarnet.com/comments/index.php?id=321696
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